Hi Guys,
As some of you know, I have been building a heap of 3'6" stock for the SAR narrow gauge routes under construction. I have also finished the SAR S class (6'6" drivered 4-4-0) plus the SAR Big Steam 600 and 720 classes. There is a strong hint that the Vic A2's could be around the place next year, and I posted a comment that Serviceton loco will take on a new look with A2's, R's, D3's, plus SAR S's, and 600's.

The thought has occurred to me that maybe (just maybe - possibly) I should revisit the Adelaide, Hills and South East route and extend it to Horsham or further. Whilst I have been testing the broad gauge locos, I have noticed numerous little things that I could improve on - even possibly extend the narrow gauge from Mt Gambier to Glencoe now that we have a range of NG locos and rolling stock. There are a number of other things that I would like to improve if this current thinking comes to fruition.

My question is this:- for those of you who do run this route, is there anything you would like, like to see, improvements that would enhance the driveability etc, etc.

Cheers
Allan

Gday SARFAN ,
As a follow up to the Adelaide Hills route I would love to see the route expanded through to Horsham , I operated trains in the area from Serviceton to Ararat in the 50s - 60s for many years,\ the ultimate would be the complete section to Ballarat thus creating the Footscray to Adelaide route. The routes you have made are excellent but just one small ? , I dont think Serviceton ever had a coaling tower . in my time , coaling was done from a stage. Many thanks for what you have created.

Gidday habyski,
You are correct there were two coaling stages. I have a photo taken from the Leeyor side of "A" box looking across the station to the loco area. It is too far away from the coaling stages to have any idea of what they looked like - do you/does anyone have photos/plans/drawings of them please.
Kaniva to Horsham would add at least 110 km to the route. Would Horsham to Serviceton provide enough distance to "enjoy" a pair of A2's or R's on the Overland with a meet at Serviceton with the Melbourne bound Overland?

Since I can no longer travel, I would need some photos of stations and some buildings close to the track at Nhill, Dimboola and Horsham if I am to make it reasonably true to what is/was there. I think I already have station yard layouts.
I doubt whether MSTS would cope with the Adelaide route going to Ballarat. By far the best option would be to persuade Russell to extend his Ballarat route to Serviceton - or perhaps someone else could do it if he gave permission.

Hmmm, thinking, thinking.
Cheers
Allan

Gday Sarfan
I'll see what photos I have Serviceton - Horsham for an extention of the Adelaide route.
I was fortunate to have fired A2s between Dimboola & Serviceton on the Overland . Because of the condition of the A2s, the trip was far from being pleasant, exciting yes , pleasant no. Locos/crews running the Overland were changed at Dimboola , extention to there would be great .

Hi SARFAN

Any chance of bringing the route to standard gauge? It would be a lot of work I know, but would give the modern diesel lovers somewhere to play.
Either ways its a great route, and keep up the excellent work.

Regards

Kym
900 class

Hi Kym,
If you mean that I have destroy Mt Lofty, Aldgate, Bridgewater, Mt Barker Junction, Nairne (etc) and remove the link to the Victor Harbour line and remove the Willunga and Mt Pleasant lines and the Mile End Yards and entirely remove Ambleside, and the line to Mt Gambier, please give me a 10,000th of a second to consider it.
No!

However, if there was significant pressure, I might consider lengthening the loops at Mt Lofty, Bridgewater, Murray Bridge, and anywhere else appropriate (make a suggestion) in order to accommodate longer trains.

The major projects that I am mulling through is extending the route to (maybe) Horsham, and returning Wolseley to Mt Gambier (or part of it) to 3'6" now that we have a broad range of 3'6" locos and rolling stock.

Cheers
Allan

I get your point!

Extending some of the loops would be nice

Whatever you decide to do, good luck with it, you guys are very talented, and I envy your patience, and determination.

Regards

Kym
900 class

Hi Kym,
Whilst I am aware that it is impolite to laugh at one's own jokes, I must admit that I have had several chuckles over That post. Absolutely no need to feel any embarrassment, mate.
I lived at Mt Lofty in the 1950's and saw and heard and (cab) rode all the big steam locos of the SAR in those years. It was Community - you saw the same people staffing the stations, trains and locos day after day and you knew every one of them. When one of the train guards retired, we had a huge party on the 4:03pm school train all the way from Blackwood to Mt Lofty - it was amazing - but shows the mutual respect that passengers and train staff had for each other. I have a photo some where in my archives.
These days, I very deliberately avoid the stations that are now mere shadows of their former staffed, busy, signal boxed stations that provided passenger and freight services and are now deserted with just a single track through. Just getting the photos I needed to build them was sufficient and that was some years back now. Therefore, creating what is there today is not in my sights.
So, extending loops - which ones and how far? I can have a pretty fair guess about Mt Lofty, Bridgewater, Balhannah, but not much more. What length trains are you looking at accommodating?
Cheers
Allan

Photo references: send me a PM of exactly what you're looking for - with an email address. I will see what I can do. I have a little bit sitting around here, anything else will involve a trip somewhere.

If you do go to Horsham: will you do the Yaapeet and Yanac lines out of Dimboola and the Goroke/Carpolac line?

Gidday notchie,
That is very generous - thank you.
At this stage, I have only just started to think seriously about revisiting a route. The first 7 months of this year were a disaster healthwise and saw me achieve absolutely nothing. However the last couple of months has seen a return to modelling and this is the reason that I can actually consider taking on another look at the Adelaide route.
I am currently looking at the Adelaide Hills stations to see what could be done to accommodate some seriously longer trains without losing the "look" of the line and surroundings. I have very briefly looked at the line from Kaniva to Horsham in Google Earth and that will just be some time and a heap of custom buildings - in particular station buildings, signal boxes, sheds, local prominent buildings etc - the things that make the route/towns/stations instantly recognisable. I guess I would appreciate some input from those who will benefit from any revisiting that I do - which loops should/could be lengthened and to what extent etc. I also need to explore how many tiles I need to add to the route for the Vic extension - just in case MSTS reaches its limits - the route is already rather largish.
I do have several small projects to get out of the way before I could start any serious work, but again, that is only time.
How long are the two lines you mentioned and where do they run to/from? Can you give me a map and/or Google references? Are they still in use today?
That's about it for now - thanks for your offer of a photo run.
Cheers
Allan

Gidday notchie,
I have just Googled:-
Yanac 27km
Paapeet 110km
Goroke/Carpolac 70+km
I would maybe look at Yanac, but the others are a bit far. If my health holds out and MSTS can add the extra tiles, I would seriously consider them, but ...?
My crystal ball does not seem to be marvellous these days, so I steer clear of definite maybe's.
Cheers.

No worries.
Yaapeet's in use today.
Yanac closed in 1986. Bear in mind that the line branched off at Jeparit.
Carpolac closed in the late 1970's. You could probably get away with - depending on space - to East Natimuk, the first station on the line.

The photos would be archival ones as a lot of infrastructure's gone, especially from smaller stations.

Although a trip out West has always been something I've been meaning to do.

Hi Allan,

This is a bit different but I'd love to see a bit of a short extension to one of your sections of tramline not the Glenelg or Semaphore line but the other one. (I'm not posting from my home computer at the moment so I'm not sure of the exact location). It doesn't matter if it's not the whole line but I'd just love to be able to drive over a bit of one of Adelaide's long lost tram routes. That's the only improvement that I can think of.

You've certainly done an excellent job with the Victoria Square end of your Glenelg line.

Regards
Geoffrey

Hey, Geoffrey,
How are you and Mum?
In the revisit, one thing I have in mind is to attempt to reduce the number of items on the Adelaide tile and see whether I can put King William St in. If that is successful, I may well be able to put the Prospect and Enfield tram lines in. Time will tell.
The tram line down Torrens road is on the Woodville tile - it already has the Port line, Woodville station, the Grange line and the Finsbury line on it - so no way Hose. - sorry - already tried it.
How are your routes coming along?
Cheers
Allan

Hi Notchie,
If the infrastructure is no longer there, photos of what was there will be a huge bonus because I can generally construct building "look-a-like" textures. Photos of large portions of a station yard are also invaluable because they let me see what was where and the distance relationship between objects.
Anyway, I just needed to say another "thank you" for your offer of a photorun and access to your archival material. I am currently working on a part relay of the line from Bridgewater down to Belair/Blackwood - where ever I run out of height. If this is successful, I will then attempt to add in the tiles for the Vic extension. If that also works, then we can discuss a photorun. If it is not successful, no point in the photorun unless you simply want a break away from tedium, heh, heh.
Cheers
Allan

Hi Allan

To accommodate longer modern trains I guess 30 to 40 wagons would be the go. Extending the above loops would be good plus these, found a map giving loop distances.

Balhannah 694m
Mt Barker Junction 1550m
Petwood 1052m
Murray Bridge 961m
Coomandook 1018m
Coonalpyn 1018m
Tintinara 995m
Coombe 1550m
Keith 998m
Wirrega 1550m
Bordertown 1006m
Wolseley 1005m

I know you don't want to detract to much from the setting of your route 50's-60's, whatever you decide I'm sure it will be good.
Link for map :http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Line%20Guides/Ade-Serv%20Line.htm

Regards

Kym
900 class

The mention of trams reminds me that I have a semi-completed Adelaide dropcentre tram somewhere on my HD I'll see if I can find it.

Of course it'll be silver & red!!! (grins, ducks, runs)

Cheers,
Matt

Oh no Matt, that will never do !!!



Regards Ross

Ah Ha !!! I recognised the location of that tram instantly - although I can't remember if I specifically had a ride on that particular tram, I did visit the tramway museum at St. Kilda when I was last in South Australia - way back in 1977 - I guess there have been quite a few changes since - as I live in Queensland, I doubt that I will ever be able to visit the museum again !!! However, I do still remember that visit fondly !!!

Regards, Brian

Gad, what a prodigious memory the man has - still, it matches his prodigious modelling skills.
Cheers Brian
Allan

I think this route is FABULOUS (I might be biased though), I have driven it till I've worn out the rails. An extension to Horsham and beyond, in fact any more work in Vic will be MUCH, MUCH apreciated. As well any extension of the Narrow gauge would also be very welcome. At the moment I cannot think of any improvements to make the route more driveable than very enjoyable route it is.
One minor point I find that some of the signals are a bit to close to the over head signal wiring. I particularly notice this east of Tailem Bend and you get a bit of a siteing line issue, Note a minor point.
If there is any way a NE Vic person can be of help just yell out!!!

Thanks woodward,
Provided my health hangs in there, looks like I might have a job ahead, heh, heh. Must get into RGE and ensure that I can add the necessary tiles.
Cheers all.
Allan

Allan,
Any chance of correcting the grade to Mt Lofty? That would really improve driveability. Well I'd appreciate it at least. Love the route as is anyway.

Regards and thanks for what you've done so far.

David S.

Hi David,
To fix Mt Lofty, I have a choice - start at Mt Barker and relay everything (including every scenery item) north, or start at Goodwood and relay everything south. Obviously, starting at Mt Barker is the only option, but that will involve the entire Willunga, Glenelg, Mile End, Adelaide, Penfield, Gawler and Two Wells lines - a massive undertaking.
I would love to fix it, but I cannot see a solution without many months work. I just feel that the other improvements (to cater for longer trains, extension to maybe Horsham and a reasonable slice of 3'6") will achieve more for the amount of work involved.
Maybe I could detune the .eng files for the 600's, 620's, 720's and the Rx's v2 to make the grade seem steeper, heh, heh, heh, heh.
The other consideration is my health - I have no certainty that it will stand that kind of pressure.
Anyway, time will tell - maybe I'll get a brainwave - unlikely at my age but, hey!
Cheers
Allan

I live in NE victoria so I am not native to the area but I have traveled and worked a bit around Murray bridge and as far as I am concerned the route captures the spirit of the area VERY well. The route is very nice to drive and this one believes some caution will be needed in any upgradeing of existing features such as longer loops so as not to alter the spirit of this route.
JRR Tolkien wrote an essay called "On faerie storys" which discusses creating believable secondary worlds and in this he states one of the great dangers for a creator is breaking the illusion.
Allan of course needs to be happy with what he wishes to do with his route and as far as I am concerned it would be fabulous to see it extended/improved in any way. It is one of the real monuments to railway simulation.

No pressure
best wishes
Lindsay